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rengel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rengel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ableton live & Xone 92
    Posted: 03†November†2005 at 1:35am
Guys,

I've just read the instructions on hooking up a Xone 92 to a PC using a MIDI cable.
Now, the instructions (http://www.xone.co.uk/midi_ableton.htm) state that you need a 'sound card' as well??
Why would I need an external sound card? To listen to my cue'd tracks within ableton live before bringing them in on the xone?
Couldn't I just cue the songs and listen to them through my headphones on the xone? or do I need two sources?
Doesn't make senes... that would mean two sets of headphones! a bit ridiculous.

The instructions also mention that I need to 'TAP' the tempo of my tracks (say I'm using 2 CDJ's) within Ableton to synch the beats...
Wouldn't this be automatically done with the MIDI clock built into the xone, and then it transmits the tempo to the clock within ableton?

Please advise...

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djarago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djarago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03†November†2005 at 6:15am
You don't *need* an external soundcard to use ableton, but you do need a MIDI input, not all internal soundcards have them. If you have a 'gameport' that is also a MIDI port. You're right on the cueing unless you wanted to have one sound from ableton playing through master and cue a second from ableton, in that case you would need 2 stereo outputs from your soundcard (or go mono).

Well you're right in that ableton can be setup to sync to the MIDI clock built into the xone, but the xone does not automatically calculate the tempo of the audio playing through it. The tempo must be manually entered by tapping. In all honesty you should just reconfigure the TEMPO ADJ knob on the xone to be another CC send because the xone's tap tempo is pretty bad. You're better off using ableton's tap tempo or auto tempo calculation in software.

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JohnDP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnDP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03†November†2005 at 8:18am
i have read on the Ableton forum that the TEMPO ADJ knob can only send MIDI data in 1 BPM increments, whereas on a normal controller, say UC-33 by M-Audio, the increments can be reduced to 0.01 BPM if the BPM range is reduced in the Master View.

The bottom line qustion is: Is there anybody out there that successfully syncs Ableton and CDJ's or turntables with the TEMPO ADJ knob?

Thanks
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03†November†2005 at 4:38pm
the BPM increments depend on your software/midi device, rather than your xone's tempo knob. midi data is always represented from 0-127. this means that the resolution is 128. it is up to the software to decide the range of tempos to spread these 128 steps over.

so, if you can tell your software that the lowest tempo is 125 and the higest is 135, your increments would be .07 BPM.

To do this in Ableton, assign your tempo knob to control the programs tempo, then at the bottom of the screen, set it to "absolute" then specify as small a range of bpms as possible. (My sets usually only drift 2-4 BPM for example) this allows for more precise tempo control
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnDP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04†November†2005 at 9:15am
i tried that yesterday and although it worked when i first tried it some months ago now i don' recall how it works anymore. I did change the tempo on the low end of the Arrangement View and assigned a fader of my UC-33 but the tempo still drifts from 60 to 200.
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04†November†2005 at 5:11pm
try setting your range to 125 - 135. see if that helps. or maybe another 10BPM range that is close to yoru tempo.

it works for me in Live 5 from a standard MIDI controller. Have not tried from Xone yet.
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04†November†2005 at 5:25pm
ok... after reading the manual... here it is...

The tempo button is by default set to fine tune the LFO2's tempo. In order to correctly use the Tempo knob to control live.. you need to open your mixer and change a jumper, very very easy task.

Download the current manual from the 92's site and see pages 36-38. the mod you need to do is to change the part that speaks of "Tempo/Data controller default"

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rengel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rengel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06†November†2005 at 11:18pm
......Or maybe I should just wait for the 3D to be released? :(


More waiting.. I've been waiting for almost over a year now for a decent controller...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axs460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08†November†2005 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Skeyelab Skeyelab wrote:

The tempo button is by default set to fine tune the LFO2's tempo. In order to correctly use the Tempo knob to control live.. you need to open your mixer and change a jumper, very very easy task.

Download the current manual from the 92's site and see pages 36-38. the mod you need to do is to change the part that speaks of "Tempo/Data controller default"



Skeyelab, Are you saying that by changing this jumper the precision of the tempo control knob is greater?

My interpretation of the manual was that by changing the jumper, you convert the tempo knob to a data send, just as the filter knobs and crossfader are setup. This seems unecessary though considering I can tap the tempo and adjust it in Ableton with the default setup. It is just a matter of increasing the precision of the tempo adjust knob.

I could very well be wrong. I'm just wondering if swapping this jumper fixed the problem for you, or if it was in the software that you fixed the problem? I'd like to know before I go pulling the mixer apart.
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08†November†2005 at 10:47pm
yes, it seems that you are wanting to use it as a data send, not to modify LFO2's speed, which in turn controls the MIDI tempo. i found the mixers tap control not te bedesireable and this is a better solution for me. also allows you to use it to control an ableton filter, delay, etc.

before you open it up, do a test like this, assign one of your knobs that already are data sends to the tempo. does it work how you want?

if so, go ahead and flip that jumper. if not, keep it.
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axs460 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axs460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09†November†2005 at 3:24am
Thanks. I checked it out and it almost works how I want. It does move the MIDI tempo, but not quite in as small of increments as I'd like.

I think assigning a small range of BPMs would work like you mentioned, but I can't seem to find a place to do it. Is it not possible in version 4.1? No big deal if it isn't. . .I'll have version 5 in a few days.
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09†November†2005 at 7:20am
i am not sure about version 4, i have owned Live since v3, but have just now started doing tempo this way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axs460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09†November†2005 at 7:42pm
It can be done in 4.1, I was just looking in the wrong place. Found an article on it on liveuser.com. Can't wait to get home from work and try this out.

I did end up changing the jumper last night, but went to bed before checking out how it works. If the jumper was kept in the default location, and the bpm range was specified like you mentioned, would that still work for smaller increments? Or does the jumper need to be switched for smaller increments?
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Skeyelab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skeyelab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 12:01am
no, because in the default position, that knob does not send MIDI data, it simply changes the internal speed of LFO2, which sends MIDI clock. MIDI clock is a Sync signal and you are changing that tempo. By making it a data send, you are directly telling ableton, what tempo you want.
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rengel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rengel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 12:03am
Wow, I'm amazed how a question about MIDI and Xone 92 has spilled out, into this :) NICE!!

A question - obviously you guys are using Ableton Live with a Xone 92.
Would you (in your opinion) be waiting for a 3D or get a xone 92 to use with your Ableton Live app?

I'm looking at using Ableton Live, with some CDJ1000 input. However, mainly mixing in Ableton Live (5).

Will the xone 92 cut the mustard????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pickitup13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 12:35am
Originally posted by rengel rengel wrote:

Wow, I'm amazed how a question about MIDI and Xone
92 has spilled out, into this :) NICE!!

A question - obviously you guys are using Ableton Live with a Xone 92.
Would you (in your opinion) be waiting for a 3D or get a xone 92 to use
with your Ableton Live app?

I'm looking at using Ableton Live, with some CDJ1000 input. However,
mainly mixing in Ableton Live (5).

Will the xone 92 cut the mustard????

A good question that I'd also like to know the answer to. I'm planning to
add ableton live to my setup soon, so I wonder if the 3d would be better
than the 92 for this purpose. Also, do you guys know if using ableton in
combination with cdj's and external effects unit would be possible on the
3D? Or should i stick with the 92 for that?
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rengel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rengel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 12:39am
pickitup - my understanding is that the Xone 92 has midi functionality and is capable of linking into ableton live, but it's limited. Very limited apparently. to only a few functions.. I.E - triggering clips, etc will still need to be done via a mouse, as opposed to the 3D which it can be done via the controller.

The 3D will have inputs so you can use existing CDJ's and turntables, effects units, etc.
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rengel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rengel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 1:05am
what's the liveuser.com URL?
liveuser.com doesn't work.... (only displays a single page saying LIVE USER.COM!)
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axs460 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axs460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 2:17am
My bad. . .

liveuser.org

there's tutorials, tips, articles. I found it by accident today searching for how to adjust the bpm range in ableton. Haven't gotten too far into it yet, but I'm sure it will be visited frequently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote axs460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10†November†2005 at 2:21am
Thanks Skeyelab. I just tried it out and it works perfectly. . .as you said. The only thing now, is that in order to use the start/stop button I have to toggle EXT on in Ableton, then toggle it off in order to adjust the bpms. No big deal I guess. I can just use the space bar for starting Ableton.

Is this right? It's not possible to use both the start/stop button and the tempo control on the 92 if the tempo controller is setup for data send? Unless EXT is toggled on and off.

Did I explain that clearly?
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